Thank you for taking the time to speak with me today.

My pleasure.

Today we’re going to talk about Wii Music. I’d like to begin by asking about your early encounters with music.

My early encounters with music? Whew...

Like the types of instruments you played, or your favourite songs...

The first instrument I played was the ukulele.

The ukulele? When was that?

Junior high. I don’t know what they were thinking, but my parents bought me a ukulele for Christmas.

Are you sure you didn’t ask for one?

No. Maybe they misunderstood something. (laughs) Anyway, for some reason my parents bought me a ukulele when I was in junior high. So I started practicing... Uh, am I going into too much detail?

No, not at all. (laughs)

Okay, here I go. (laughs) I am a person who loves practicing many things and I wanted to practice the ukulele at night without having to worry about the noise, so I made a ukulele neck without a body. I cut wood to create a fingerboard, then added markings and yarn.

Just as I thought! You were already in love with creating something with your hands when you were that small (laughs)

Yeah. (laughs) So at first I used that to practice chords.

That’s quite something. What did you do next?

Um, that was about it. I didn’t get any better.

Even after all that work?

Yeah. I quit without ever improving or playing together with anyone. Another early encounter with music that I remember is the first record I bought. This also was during junior high. Of course, I didn’t have much money then, so buying a record took a lot of courage. Back then, there were small records called 45s...

Yes, I remember. It was called Extended Play Record, or EPs.

Right. The first one I bought was a great buy. It had four songs on it!

Four? I thought 45s usually only had two songs.

I know. They were overtures, sort of like marches. For some reason, I bought a record with four of them on it.

Marches? Why?

I liked brass bands. I would often go listen to the school band practicing.

You weren’t in the band yourself?

No, I never was. There’s an explanation for it, but it’s a little complicated. In junior high, I was in basketball, but I wanted to start a manga club. One of my senior teammates told me I couldn’t be in a sports club and a literary club at the same time, and we got into a big fight. In the end, even though I was a starter on the basketball team, I quit and formed a manga club. So I just ended up listening to the brass band.

I see. (laughs)

Anyway, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, the record. It had songs like Pomp and Circumstance, Light Cavalry Overture, French Military March Music and the Radetzky March on it. Whilst listening to it at home alone, I’d be, like (closes eyes and mimics conducting), da-dum, da-da-dum-dum, da-da-dum-dum-dummmm!

You were conducting? Wow! So that’s why you were able to conduct in front of all those people at the Kodak Theatre.
(※ In 2006, Shigeru Miyamoto opened an Nintendo press conference at the Kodak Theatre by performing a demo for Wii Music.)

No, I don’t think they’re related. (laughs) I wasn’t doing anything in particular, I was just enjoying the music and moving however the feeling struck me.

(laughs)

While I was doing that, the Beatles boom hit. My older brother introduced me to them, and in high school I joined the popular music club. Everyone but me could play guitar, so they taught me how to play simple 4/4 beats on the drums. I learned how to play those, but not much else.

It seems like you tried out a little of just about everything. I’m a little surprised.

I quit everything halfway through, though. Then I started going to concerts and learning to play Ventures (an American surf-rock band) tunes. In college, I was big into Takuro Yoshida (a Japanese singer-songwriter who became extremely popular in the ‘70s). My brother had a guitar and banjo, so I even took an interest in folk music. In college, I saved up money and bought a guitar and stereo as soon as I could. Back then, folk musicians in Japan were mostly copying the older style of folk music from America. Then I started listening to the originals. During my college days I was crazy about that music. Well...does that answer your question? (laughs)

Yes. Thank you. (laughs)

Why am I getting so into this? (laughs)

It’s fascinating. If you hadn’t experienced music in so many different ways, you might never have made some of the games that you have. For example, you might not have paid as much attention to the music in the Mario games, and Wii Music might never have been made at all.

Oh, well, you’re half right about that, and half overestimating me. As much as I’ve shown an interest in music, the truth is, I don’t really understand it.

Really?

I just don’t have the skills. That’s one reason. The other is that, basically, I’ve only copied other people’s music. So, whilst I like music, I have this complex about not making any music myself.

But everything you’ve mentioned connects to Wii Music.

Hmm, maybe you’re right. (laughs) Anyway, I didn’t think I stood a chance of becoming a musician, so after graduating, I entered Nintendo. At the time, not many people at Nintendo were seriously into music. That was good for me because then I could throw my weight around on musical matters. As soon as Koji Kondo and others who know a lot about music joined, that came to a screeching halt. I thought it best to keep my mouth shut about music. (laughs)

(laughs)

After that, the number of staff members knowledgeable about music grew rapidly. I had my own ideas about music and wanted to share them, but everyone else was on a much higher level, so I couldn’t. To this day I have a complex about it.

Listening to you talk, I can tell.

Yeah, so there you have it. (laughs) When it comes to music games—as opposed to music for games—a lot of good games have been developed that require pressing buttons in line with a musical score, but they don’t represent the idea I have of music very well.

In other words, most music games are fun as games, but you feel music is enjoyed in a different way from your perspective.

That’s the basic idea. When I heard that director Kazumi Totaka wanted to take Wii Music in a different direction than conventional music games, I thought, “Let’s do it! It’ll be great, so do it!” I cheered him on.

I see.

How did Wii Music begin, back before it was an official project within the company?

For some time I’d been hounding Kondo-san, saying that since we had a sound team, they should make a music game, not just music for games. Actually, this is something we had tried several times before.

When was that?

About the time the Nintendo 64 came out, several music games for computers were on the market, and we wondered if we could make something similar. We gave it a try, but since we didn’t have a specific mission—it hadn’t been assigned and there were no deadlines—it didn’t move forward. We knew we could just throw something together and toss it aside anytime. After we’d made something, we’d say, ‘Well, that isn’t bad’, and that would be the end of it.

It’s hard to finish something unless you really have to.

That’s right. Since these half-hearted efforts by the sound team to create a music game had been going on for some time, when this project arose, I hounded them to really do it this time.

With expressions like ‘cheer’ and ‘hound’, I suppose that shows how much you wanted this project to succeed and how much you needed input from professional musicians. If I remember correctly, in the very beginning, when Wii was still under development, a demo program for testing the Wii Remote existed, which later was the ‘conductor’s game’ that you revealed at E3 in 2006.

That’s right. At first it was just about conducting. Then we added drumming, and showed that at E3 as well. We were also working on adding the violin, but that fell through. Actually, each instrument presented its own set of problems. I thought it was getting too complicated and suggested giving up some of them, but everyone else stubbornly persisted, and before I knew it all the various elements came together.

I see.

So I left it in the hands of the sound team. But then it dragged on, and hardly made any progress. (laughs)

Oh. (laughs) I suppose the development team will tell me all about their trials and tribulations when I talk to them later.

I’m sure they will. (laughs) Roughly speaking, the project started moving once I appointed Totaka-san to be director. He’d worked on the music for a lot of games, like Animal Crossing, but for some time I’d been talking with Takashi Tezuka about having him take on more of a role as project coordinator in addition to being in charge of sound.

Totaka-san is fairly assertive.

Yeah, he’ll even tell those close to him flat out what he doesn’t like about them. And, of course, he has a deep understanding of music.
One time I talked to him about jazz improvisation. I’d heard that you play towards a note you eventually want to arrive at, and without blinking he said ‘of course!’ Pretty cool, huh? I should’ve known because he performs jazz sometimes.
I have a rational understanding of it. There are chords and scales, and if you know where you want to go, you can play your way there. But I can’t do it myself. One reason for that is I just don’t have the confidence. I thought, if everyone could enjoy playing freely towards a target like that, you would be able to perform a variety of expressions.
Since Totaka-san and I had shared this conversation, and he seemed to be thinking about something along those lines, I thought it would be great if he could make the game that way.

Hmm, now I’m certain your musical experiences have paid off in this game. If you’d learned how to play a musical instrument, you might never have come up with the Wii Music concept of anyone being able to play music simply by moving the Wii Remote.

I suppose so. If I could actually play an instrument, I might view this game as sacrilege against true music.

(laughs)

So anyway, I determined the basic concept and appointed a director. Then I left it in the hands of the development staff. Sometimes I would hear presentations and adopt the role of badgering them with questions like ‘Why not do it like this?’ and ‘Why did you take that out?’ You could say I was a kind of cheering squad.

I think I know what you mean. (laughs)

If somebody asked you ‘What is Wii Music?’ today, how would you answer them?

Hmm... It’s something we made with the idea of turning the joy of music into a game. It isn’t a musical instrument, but it isn’t a video game, either. It’s something like no other.

I see.

That’s why I want everyone to try it out. It conveys the true joy of music.

It sounds like you’re pleased that it turned out this way.

I am. When I saw the final product, I thought it was most unusual. One attractive aspect is that while it’s not a musical instrument, it provides the same joy as playing a musical instrument. Someone who can’t play an instrument can experience playing in an ensemble.

I can’t think of much else that can do that.

Yeah, if it’s just simple instruments, there are older instruments that are easy to play, like the Taisho harp or autoharp.

Or something unconventional, like the Jaminator.

Yeah. Those are about the only easy instruments there are. A lot of people haven’t mastered an instrument and have never experienced playing in an ensemble.

Yeah. (laughs)

Considering that, I think we’ve made an extremely enjoyable tool to introduce people to music. That’s why, to exaggerate somewhat, you could say that Wii Music is a new instrument that sweeps aside the whole idea of musical instruments heretofore. Within 15 minutes, you’ll be playing all kinds of instruments.

In other words, it allows players to experience a wide variety of emotions infinitely close to the joy known to people all over the world who play musical instruments, but at the expense of much less effort.

I think so. This may not be an apt comparison, but karaoke allows people without musical skill to experience something approaching the pure joy at the heart of music. That’s why it has become so popular all over the world.
Wii Music may have something in common with karaoke. Like the thrill of stepping outside yourself or the ease of getting into it from the style. It may feel a little embarrassing at first, but pretty soon you’ll be having a ball.

I agree. You may not have much musical skill or creativity, but as long as you have the motivation to try playing an instrument, you will enjoy this game to the fullest.

That’s right. That motivation and the thrill of throwing yourself into something are also helpful when playing a real musical instrument. Whatever instrument you decide to play, you have to begin with the fundamentals, and that causes a lot of people to stumble.

I want those people who have stumbled to give Wii Music a try. Just like with Wii Sports and Wii Fit, the best way to understand it is to actually try it out.

When we talk about how easy it is, some will say that it may lack depth for people who can play an instrument. (laughs)

If it becomes music no matter how someone plays, they wonder where the challenge is.

There’s no need to worry about that when playing alone. For one thing, even though anyone can learn to play right away and no matter how the player plays it will still sound like music, that doesn’t mean every performance is exactly the same. You’re free to play the prepared songs with a twist, but no matter how much you do, the fundamental structure of the song won’t change. What’s more, you can play up to six parts per song.

It might be hard for someone who hasn’t experienced it to understand what it means to ‘twist’ the song.

Yes, I imagine so. In Wii Music, the melodies and rhythms of the songs aren’t fixed. There’s a basic and simple rhythm and a melody composed of simple chord progressions. Within that broad framework, you can do whatever you want. If you play a six-part ensemble to your liking, it’s like you’re arranging the song yourself. You might see someone else elaborating on the same song and wonder how they did it.

It’s like how surprising it can be when on the Mii Contest Channel you see a Mii that’s been made in a way you never imagined.

Exactly! Anyone can easily make a Mii, but you can also achieve some pretty fancy results. Wii Music is like that, but for music. There are 50 songs and 60 instruments to choose from. You can play six parts yourself, record your performances, play them back and save them. So when it comes to long-time enjoyment for solo players, I don’t think there’s any need to worry.

I agree.

As I listen to you talk, I feel like Wii Music may be one of your life’s work, something you’ve wanted to make for a long time.

I suppose it is. That’s why I’m overjoyed that it’s complete. I didn’t really feel this kind of joy when making other games.

There’s no need to debate on whether Wii Music is better or worse than other games, but how would you say it’s different?

Let’s see... To put it a way that makes me sound good, it gives me hope that I will have made a contribution to the future of music, and that makes me happy.

It may sound presumptuous to say I can have that kind of influence on music, but the game may have an influence on new musical instruments yet to be created, and from now on there may be musicians who say Wii Music was what first got them into music. I have a feeling that will be true.

And people who have given up on music and musical instruments will come to know the joy of music through playing Wii Music.

Definitely. A lot of people are afraid of playing a musical instrument. In particular, playing together with someone else can be fun, but unsettling and scary at first.
Wii Music removes that fear, and players, just by imitating actually playing, quickly get a feeling for the structure of ensembles and how fun it is to jam with others. What’s more, some people may be inspired to start learning a real musical instrument, and may find their appreciation of live musical performances enhanced.

So there’s a possibility that Wii Music will drastically raise players’ fundamental understanding of music.

That’s right. I think it would be great if kindergartens and elementary schools adopted Wii Music to begin children’s music education.

You’ve actually had some kindergarten teachers play Wii Music, haven’t you?

Yes. I also would like professional musicians and music experts to try it out. I’d like to know what they think.

Like you, I feel this is the beginning of something.

In particular, I think using Wii Music in education deserves serious thought. As a kid I absolutely hated Social Studies.

Oh, me, too.

Really? (laughs) I wondered why I had to learn the domestic products of places foreign to me and memorise the particular dates for historical events, but after I became an adult, I read a book called The History of Information, which changed the way I think.
In that book there was a timeline overlapping world history with Japanese history. I was interested in art history, so the timeline, which included information such as what was going on in Japan when Europe was going through the Renaissance, was fascinating.

I know what you mean.

To take another example, after hearing the story of Oda Nobunaga (a charismatic warlord from the war-torn period of Japan), you might take an interest in history. Music is exactly the same. Once you’ve experienced the joy of musical performance and want to do it better, then when you study musical notation, you’ll learn much more quickly. As your interest increases, you may even feel you want to study music theory.

But if you start with music theory, you won’t understand the joy of music. Music education for young children today begins with enjoying rhythm, but then suddenly jumps into music theory. I seriously want to and think we may be able to change that. Am I getting too excited about this? (laughs)

No, not at all. (laughs) You always say that you want to make video games more than just one entertainment genre, and it seems that with Wii Music that is especially true.

Yes, it is. Maybe I’m just turning into a crazy old man. (laughs)

(laughs)

I wasn’t this excited when we created Super Mario Bros.

I wonder what, exactly, has excited you so much. Is it because something you always wanted to make has finally been accomplished?

I suppose so. I strongly want everyone to understand this game. Earlier you said this may be my life’s work. This game may be exactly what I’ve wanted to accomplish all this time. It may also be a reaction against my complex about musical instruments.

Whenever you saw others performing music, you must have always wanted to experience that for yourself. Now that you’ve made something that allows you to do that, you’re certain it must be fun.

Hmm, you may be right about that.

And I’m guessing you’re also excited because of satisfaction with the way it turned out.

I suppose so... I have the kind of personality that sees everything as beneficial to me. I rationalise everything, thinking nothing in my life has ever gone to waste, or I’m so glad I did that. Even if something doesn’t work out well, even should I fall, I’m the type who thinks I can get something out of it, that it was good I didn’t succeed at that time.

I see.

I think that’s why I’ve used all my experiences and preferences in my work, but these days I’ve felt like I’m running out of material.
For example, I used a manga that I drew as a kid for 2D games. I used a puppet play that I liked as a kid for 3D games. In creating video games, I’ve also used the theories I used to construct design and ID concepts in college.
I thought I had used up all my musical tastes in sound design and in writing the song for Donkey Kong, but when I look at Wii Music, I’m struck by how I still had some experiences left to put to use. That’s a good feeling.

I see. The game is satisfying in another way as well. Music is universal. An immense number of people around the world are interested in or moved by it. I think there are a lot of people like you who want to play a musical instrument but can’t. In light of that, I think Wii Music has enormous potential. Because instead of accurately performing actions in time with a score, gameplay is about enjoying limitless possibilities—all of which are correct.

That’s right. You can play it any way you like.

 

Right. It doesn’t matter how you play. And each player’s performances are unique and can’t be copied, so you can show each other your performances. It is indeed a game like no other.

 

I completely agree.

I can’t wait until I have Wii Music in my own home. I wonder how I’ll get along with the music... Just like you, I always wanted to play a musical instrument, but could never get the hang of it. (laughs)

Yeah, there are people like me all over the world!

 

(laughs)

 

 

(to be continued)